Wednesday, June 3, 2015

Fine Art America The Ins and Outs or Outlaws?

Day One Post One

    This is going to be a long long long blog. I am a first time blogger and very much a novice at this but bear with me as I am sure it will get better.

First of all to the grammar police. I apologize for what I am going to do with the English language. My wife and many people have often told me I should be a writer but then I would definitely need a editor, all the time.

Also I am a 39 year old Asian man from Hong Kong and my primary language is Mandarin Chinese. I finally posed as myself as the last pseudo persona on Fine Art America which will now and forever in the rest of this blog be referred to as FAA since it is terrible to keep typing the full name.

This blog is about life at FAA as told by many in bits and pieces here and there and primarily hidden in private conversations all through the archives of FAA discussion areas. These discussion areas are limited to a certain number of pages and you have to know exactly what to search for to find anything they do not want you to find. Also their search also has the tendency of sticking you in the search that you are doing at the time and making you think you cannot get back to the regular discussion area.

I have to give you a little background about what I have been doing. I suppose you can call me a troll of sorts or a spy or a person that lies in wait in the background and reads and researches deeply into whatever they are interested in and I became interested in FAA approximately two years ago. I was looking for a nice print on demand site for some artwork that I wanted printed and as a way of getting you to buy prints from them they offered a free account,an artist account with many benefits. I got sucked into the submit your prints and earn money. Being a suspicious person or skeptical person by nature I went in under an assumed identity

but then I later asked about this and the management told me they did not care what you went by as long as they got paid and later found out the reason why. All management and sub managers including the owner use

 false names and change them frequently.

I know I know my paragraphs are getting longer and longer. I will stop that now and get back to a reasonable length and post so people can read what I am posting.

First of all I want to give the owner kudos for starting a bootstrap company and building and building and building until he is making so much money he just bought a four million dollar home in California and from what I read is turning into a person much like the founder of Facebook and so many other major businesses that are expanding at a never ending rate. Also give credit to the original three employees as I am not sure just how many there are now paid and unpaid.

I have given a little information about myself and who I am writing about and the reasoning about why I am writing this . The main reason is that the  truth about FAA will come out and be known and let people decide for themselves if it is a company they want to be associated with. All my information is gathered by myself and also research online about the company, the employees and the many many comments pros and cons , good the bad and the ugly and many many complaints which most go unanswered at various BBB's in the United States and also other agencies.

I have stories to share about members good and bad and of course will try to refrain from using their names here but will share a copy of a letter or question posed recently in the discussion area that yet again got deleted from their servers almost as soon as it was posted. Apparently they don't like people especially members reading anything that might cause other members to question their ethics or their intentions or actions and also are quick to make it private which will not allow a person just looking at the discussion area without being logged on to FAA. This brings me to another yet question. I thought I would have access as a Facebook member to log on to the Fine Art America page like normal people do when you are a Facebook member, but I was wrong. You have to be already a member of Facebook and also a member of their site to log in. Hmmm this makes me wonder why. Aren't most sites or pages there easily accessed and even joined with little or no problem? I have to wonder if they are trying to do damage control and monitor all comments and anything negative that might come their way.

 Getting back to the start of the beginning. FAA promises all kinds of things but it seems they may have another agenda. Over the two years that I have been under false identities, I have found my art on many many many mirror sites that some look like FAA others not really and others, well I am not even sure who they were. I wonder when asked by a member to have a list of other domains that the list never comes forth.

Another thing that worries me is that my art, although I am a pseudo-artist and do not really have that much to worry about is being previewed and downloaded on all kinds of search engines in almost high resolution without FAA watermarks as the other 20,000 to 90,000 other artist. The number here varies as it does everywhere I research . I would love to know exactly how many real members they have. All the mirror sites or sub sites or doppelganger sites or whatever they are may in fact have that many members all together but personally I really doubt that they actually have over maybe 10000.

Ok when I first started I started as an old guy. I made it clear that I did not have much money and was trying to make a little money and have fun with my art. As a new person I went into the discussion area chatting like I noticed others doing and having fun and people were critical of me but they seem to be ok with me and I made the mistake of asking a question that was not to their liking. I have never seen such a vicious, vindictive mob mentality. I merely asked hypothetically if and a very big if was there a way to rid myself of followers and comments on my artwork. Remember this was very hypothetical. You would have thought I was at the inquisition or being on trial for being a witch or something to this extent.

I was very polite and made a few little nice comments and mentioned at least three times this was all just a hypothetical question. At that time the big boys or what I like to call the mod squad came busting in and was just about to string me up and the moderator Lady Isabella Shores stepped in and closed the discussion and made it private. I did not understand her motive in this but she claimed it broke some vague rule. Although it wasn't my breaking the rule that got my discussion closed and made private but the members that attacked me. Guess who got reprimanded?....That is correct.. yours truly..

At first they thought I was just an old guy that did not have anything in the way of art to really threaten them yet they found a reason to online lynch me and get the moderator to do the dirty work and shut me down.

This happens a lot. If you do not believe me, create a false account and then go in and pretend to ask direct questions about the company or the things that happen there. They will be deleted in moments if not sooner or closed and no one can comment or if someone had the last nasty remark ,you would not have a chance to even make a remark back to defend yourself. It is a very pathetic thing. The bad thing is there is a group there of sharks that have been there for a long time. I do suppose these people do sell or at the very least provide FAA with nice enough images that they do not want to make them angry so they continue year  after year letting them destroy peoples hopes, dreams and want to succeed by letting these old letches slander, and bash them unrecognizable until the people that were pounced on just deletes everything and leaves.

One word of warning here. A very blatant and outright truth you need to know before joining. Once you hit submit on their servers with your artwork, it goes in their memory banks and on multiple international search engines never to come off again. Two years ago I was doing a whole different style of artwork and deleted it and changed accounts various times and do you know that the artwork is still on major search engines in full resolution after requesting the search engines to get it off their servers which I was referred back to FAA and they gave me the run around so long I just decided to let them keep it. But as you know I kept doing this for the last two years as hoping I would do so by gathering plenty of information about the real blood and guts of FAA and their actions and works and I have. I have enough for a book.

As I was involved in my first little artist account as I said I had a profile of an older guy. Funny thing, the people on FAA believe everyone is who they say they are and just take at that. The guy profile I posted was a guy from another country and older gentlemen that never said he was any age. The members all just assumed he was an old guy no threat. I then tried an experiment. I was doing some rather fabulous things ,posting some of the most bizarre art and just plain eye candie and then I put several photos as artist profile of  a friend of mine, a rather nice looking guy a man's man if you know what I mean.

The crap hit the roof. I found out how the members that interacted with me really felt. These people were so aggressive and mean and ruthless and they let it all hang out so to speak. I wish I had thought to make copies of those conversations and post them here. You would not believe your eyes. By the way I did gather a list from that post I mentioned that pretty much covers the most old timers and people that are way out of control. I am not sure just who the guy was that made the post but he must have been doing the same thing I have or maybe just not as long and he got enough and just blew his wad ,and ask many many questions and pointed out how nasty many people on there was and other things and it was gone off the servers in less than

an hour but I was lucky enough to grab a copy of it before it was gone and will copy and paste it here for your information soon.I will mention it again before I post the copy.

For all practical purposes there are a lot of good things on FAA or appear to be good. Also I met many people that befriended me and complimented me on my work,perhaps for an alternate reason. FAA is kind of a Facebook for Artist and those that think they are artist. You go and view a portfolio and you check like or not then you favor it which it puts the favorite in your own personal gallery and then you comment on the favorite and then the artist feels they have to comment on your work and so on. It is a ill scratch your back if you scratch mine environment. But believe it or not there are so kind good people there that are sincere and post nice comments not expecting anything from you . I have to wonder sometimes if these aren't like vote solicitors though. You know like, I will worship your art and you at sometime in the future you owe me.

Anyway I kept on putting artwork and better artwork up and the comments grew fewer and fewer and I would venture into the discussion area from time to time and get beat up there and one of two things would end up happening. The members would bash me so bad I would retreat and then after they beat me up so bad verbally they would start on each other and eventually the original discussion would be closed by Lady Isabella Abbie Shores.

Now there are multiple moderators.One JC Finely which depending on what day you catch him will join in and be a stand up guy and straight and direct and good but other days can be ruthless as Lady Abbie Shores. Also there is another guy that has a discussion called "All about me" not egotistical at all huh?

I think his name is Frank Carnella or somehing like that. He doesn't intervene much. I think he is a stand in when Sean the owner can't muster anybody else but I find that almost not existent because there are so many other moderators, or what is called back seat moderators.

I can give you a short list here of them but will put a star by there names when the copy of the other guys post is here and tell you what the star means in case you forget. First of all there is a guy there named Mike Savad. Mike I think is a highly intelligent guy that actually is very good at what he does but he knows it and is arrogant and a somewhat know it all but comes off that way which isn't very good for his ego.

Mike is a introvert like many artist, really nothing wrong with this and I think personally Mike is not really understood. He has been asked so much about his knowledge that he thinks that people want it whether they ask or not. He has dot coms and is all over the internet kind of like a celebrity but then again I think he is a legend in his own mind.

Then next person is a guy name David Bridburg. He is kind of like Mike Savad's sidekick. Or maybe he and Mike are the same person and David is Mikes alter ego. It is hard to say. If Mike post David post before him or after so it is kind of like double teaming or single teaming .. who knows.. If you join there you will have to just figure it out. At this point instead of going on I think that I will post the copy of the letter from this guy named Michael Rosetti that was on FAA yesterday and was read over 250 times before it was gone. It had already hit Google and the post got deleted. The management was have been very worried about what was said because it was deleted. That rarely ever happens, they just usually make it private so the general public can't see it and it gets buried in the archive where no one ever sees it again.

Here it is in full copy with stars beside the names of the people like Mike and David remember this is not a post by me ,but a copy and paste only of the original post and sad but true all 22 remarks after gone with the post I did not get the remarks but the original post before deleted. People must have wanted to read it because there was over 250 people in  37 minutes read it before its demise. Here it is in full below.

Posted by Michael Rosetti Monday afternoon May the 19th 2015 on Fine Art America.

Also the entry to the post was on Google seconds later. The entry still there if you look search Google for Michael Rosetti Fine Art America and you will see the post "Why" but there will be no complete link. Only the entry is still there. Here is the post in its entirety no responses..sorry they deleted it quickly..who knew..?


Why does the management let these people do and say what they want?

Why does Abbie allow one person (this list) to break the rules everyday and yet not be punished and new people get slaughtered and shamed for a minor infraction?

Why does these people gang up on people and destroy their souls when they are attempting to do just what others are here?

Why does everyone here think their artwork is priceless and someone is going to steal it?
Why are some religious discussions allowed to progress here but others are shot down right from the start?

I have been here on FAA for almost two years in different profiles on free accounts trying my artwork out. Yes I am not new ,but have been curious about all of you . I wanted to see just how aggressive and mean you all could be and I have confirmed my fears.
You all have run off more great artist than you could ever be.

You also have kissed ass so much it is a wonder that the management is stupid enough to think that you actually like them. Are they that gullible? You kiss ass and keep your little group so tight that you do not give anyone a chance unless they come on line and kiss kiss kiss ass right from the start.

You say no wall of shame but yet the management allows the old timers and these people to do and say what they want to others. You are all assholes and mean and aggressive people. I kept a list that I will now post all over the internet to sites including Facebook ,twitter, and pinterest and  all social sites and will compose the appropriate letter for millions or perhaps billions to read and read your names to avoid you like the plague.You are all bad news and I want to let others that buy your art and maybe will join here one day that you are all backbiting butt sucking cows and crappy ass people.

I know you think you can make this private Abbie and I want see it but I have been on here two years under many different names and you think that I want log in and read it? This needs to be said and to all those on this list ,kiss my ass you mo fos.

Especially the main ones and you know who you are. I am sure that I haven’t listed everyone but you all know who you are. Why in the fuck are you all being so arrogant and egotistical and mean? Are you all that insecure?

I will preach to all that even entertain the idea of being any of your friends or joining here until my dying day but this letter is a letter of intention so that you know you are all on notice with the world. You fuckers are so mean and hateful and middle class bigots. I hate you all and I hope the world sees this and all the places It is going. You are all guilty of being just plain nasty people.
The wall of shame assholes !!!!!!!!!!
Joy McKenzie*
Mike Savad*
Ronald Walker
Kevin Callahan*
Robert Kernodle*
Joe Burgess*
Edward Fielding*
David King*
Greg Jackson*
Roy Erickson*
Jim Hughes*
Vincent Von
David Bridburg*
Heather Applegate*
Rich Franco
Richard Reeve*
Vanessa Bates*
Jean Gabriel Poive
James B Toy
Rahdne Zola
Jim Whalen
VIVA Anderson*
Brooks Garten Hauschild*
Marlene Burns*
Sydne Archambault
Carol Lux Photography
Chuck Staley
Ginette Callaway*
Lady I F Abbie Shores**
Bradford Martin*
Lisa Kaiser
Bonfire Photography*
Diana Angstadt
Joseph C Hinson Photography*
Jessica Jenney
Cynthia Decker
Billy East
Louise Reeves
Dan Turner*
Thomas Zimmerman*
Val Arie*
Brian Wallace*
Melissa Bittinger
Bob Slitzan
John Wills
Harold Shull
Viet Tran
Jane McGowan
Kenneth Agnello*
Shana Rowe*
John Crothers
Conor Murphy
Barbara Moignard
John Haldane
Jason Christopher
Gregory Scott
Ericamaxine Price
Tc Morgan
Sharon Cummings
Valerie Reeves

Jennifer White

Good luck and kiss my ass.

I had to read this all over again. I think this guy must have been doing the same thing I was for a long time too. It seems maybe the same time. Imagine that. I have put one star by the most dominating and nasty and cruel and mean and two stars by one person meaning she is suppose to be one of the real moderators.

Remember this is not my words but one of their members I suppose that must have had enough and suffered enough abuse and wanted his questions answered as so many of the people that ask legitimate questions get blasted off line and caused to quit. You have to wonder how many people that are far better artist than the people on this list have been run off.

Also you have to ask yourself if these questions are legitimate and should they be answered by management.

I have read so much about the owner Sean Broihier and the people in the discussion area that does get to do what they want when they want and it isn't hard to find complaints all over the internet about Sean and also others all over the internet. Also I have read so many cases of people trying to get refunds on poor quality photos they bought and no response. That is a really bad thing response. Nothing makes a person madder than being ignored. Even if the get a plain answer "NO" I don't think they are as offended as just being totally disregarded and ignored and this happens quite often at FAA.

I am not afraid of the big bad wolf Sean Broihier and friends and little furry critters that lurk there at FAA.

Sean has a God and that GOD is the almighty buck. Nothing wrong with that  but screwing people over trying to get it there is something wrong with. I have to laugh as I found a post, that could only be commented on through Facebook calling another company thieves and liars as that is like the pot calling the kettle black. Here is a link to that post which like I said ironic because he does the same thing this company does and I wonder if they have a law suit against him because of it. It seems Sean does have quite a few law suits against him at the time and also copyright infringements and other legal things also unanswered complaints on BBB and other agencies. Anyway here is the link below, check it out and compare notes of research about FAA and Sean and what I have told you here so far..

Since losing this due to hmmm some hackers, I did not want to look the link up again so just go search Google for Sean's Rant about Pinterest.

I think you will find it amusing. Like I said like the pot calling the kettle black.

I know that I will probably endure many hate comments here and well bad comments and other things but then im sure there are many that will read this that will agree and I think that about 90 percent of Seans artist photographers will, but would never admit it because of the Sean 30 dollar deal.

I did hear about something recently that bothers me but I know to be true for a fact as I knew the man it happened to but not his wife which I recently have spoken with about all of this. Here is the story of that man. This man was 80 years old . He had terminal cancer but did not announce that online. Apparently he was a very good artist and others were very jealous of him and he had been abused as many of us that have asked questions in the discussion area have been when asking serious questions or things that needed to be answered.

This man made many friends and did a lot of artwork. His works were incredible and he was only online because his son paid for an account for him to bide his time as he was very depressed. The man being an introvert but quite the genius as I have been told. He was a scientist and theoretical physicist and very very prominent man but his only sin was that he tried to be friendly on FAA and people did not like that his art was superior and that his intellect was superior and that he had it well off enough that he could stay online and work on art and do what he wanted.

I am not sure it would have made any difference to these people that I have met if they knew he was that ill or not but in short, he passed away. Before he passed away his only request was for FAA to make sure all his artwork was offline and not on FAA and he had sold one phone case that amounted to 15.00 and had set up a paypal account in his son's name so that his son would get whatever money was made on FAA trying to pay his son back for the 30.00 the son had spent on his membership.


This is what got me about the whole situation. The son had gone on FAA for the father before the father passed away and changed the name on the account and did not close it before the dad passed away and asked the owner and management to get rid of all artwork and to make sure that FAA took it off the search engines as well. The wife asked for the 15.00 in the account for the phone case that her husband had sold and never paid for and as of today she has gotten no such payment after months of FAA not paying it.

Also she has emailed the owner and the the management and requested they fully remove the images from their servers so the search engines would stop picking them up and the account was closed for a time but they found it back open and active so they signed in and the son asked if his mother could have the remaining paid time online in place of her husband and renamed the account and asked that it not be associated with her husband in anyway, yet everywhere his name appears tied to her. If she has the account open in another name and website name and address it links back to everything that her deceased husband said and his photo and images are all over the search engines and they keep multiplying more and more images that have been deleted long before his death. The wife says there are more of his images on the search engines now than there were when he was active at FAA and also more entries,just like her husband is still posting them.

The bad thing is that the head of Google is a personal friend of theirs and he said as long as FAA has anything like this on their servers then their automation will continue to pick it up and he has done all he could do and FAA will have to handle it. Also FAA and management has said they have done all they could do so his works and personal photos will be eternally on search engines because of their negligence and just plain ignoring the request to look into this and the money for the sell, well you know where it goes.. as part of the payment on Sean's four million dollar home.

I can't even imagine the plight of this family . Also the bad thing is that when the son was writing to the management about how sick his father was and the mother wrote about it to, there was no sorry kiss my ass or anything. It was like this man was a leper a friendless person that nobody cared about especially FAA.

This sort of thing happens all the time. I see people concerned about their payments getting closed discussions so quick their head spins and if anything that management is worried about people finding out ,the original posters questions are quickly snuffed out and they are reprimanded .The whole place sounds like a communist regime holding people and stifling them out like a candle .I suppose their hundreds of thousands of members are all disposable.

The whole thing reeks of the famous phrase from PT Barnum" there is a sucker born every minute" we the members are the suckers.Now the really big money makers are immune to rules and everything else.I on the other hand is a nobody that doesn't sell much like so many other nobodies that reside there. Yes not everyone makes millions on FAA and lives happily ever after. Go on the discussion area on any given day and you will see comments about no sells no sells no sells and of course Mike Savad will start posting links telling everybody the secret of getting rich.

I tell you what, don't take my word for it. Just Google Fine Art America complaints and reviews and you will see a lot of destroyed dreams ,cheated people and just plain disappointed and people in despair and no one to take up for them and being ignored pretty much like anyone that isn't a good brown nosing ass kisser and or supplier of precious merchandise. It is enough to make you sick. Now if you just need a place to store some of your photos and make sure they are in private password protected galleries that most of the time cannot be viewed are not suppose to be viewed then the 30 dollars a year is really worth the effort. Unlimited storage space with a chance to take them out on occasion and sell a few, but remember once that album is open under no password it doesn't matter what you do putting them back in ,all the search engines are going to snoop and get them and put them out full resolution for all to right click save as.

I see so many post everyday where people have seen their images being sold on and offline. Geez wonder how that happens? Also paranoia abounds there. Everybody there has such an inflated ego...most their art sucks ,the ones that are worried and the art that is superb and wonderful sits there floating out on the internet and free for all to pick up and use full resolution nobody worries about. I don't get it. People that are so scared that they are reverse searching their art every minute of everyday because they think that someone is stealing it and they are the ones that I would not steal if I could. I would be going after those that put their art there that is superb and never worried about it being stolen.

I really just don't get the attitude there. Also I have noticed a lot of bigotry there. Let me make myself perfectly clear. I don't think it extends beyond the discussion area but there have been so many different races that have been shot down and cut down and bashed over and over. I have seen it on a harsh level so many times in last few years. Recently a black Cuban man that had incredible art was bashed until he deleted everything and left. His art was superb and he was being bashed over and over for his type of art, his way of speaking, his using of lyrics from a famous rap star that was actually his friend and he had permission to do so and his use of key words.

This post got so long and he was badgered over and over by so many that he just left. This guy was a Cuban refugee that had come to the states in a boat and married well , a nurse I think from a prominent family. He was told how could he be married to such a well educated woman that protected him and wrote for him. I felt like saying love is blind. Also most recently there was a Japanese woman that felt her rights were  being imposed on an abused and had a friend translate for her and ask questions and she was ran out and the girl ended up deleting her account . Also of late in the last few days a little Mexican guy I think. He was a new artist starting out very excited about being there and posting in excitement and people ,yes the regulars started bashing him and the moderator Lady Abbie Shores reprimanded him, mind you for being rude.

I can not ever  begin to tell you how many times this has happened over and over and over and will continue until someone puts a stop to it. Over the last two years it has happened on almost a daily basis and this is only the occasional ones that I get wind of and is fortunate enough to read. It is funny as some days I go through post that thousands have read much like this probably many from outside but yet many from the inside that read and just don't say anything. I think they are fearful to make management mad as not knowing the backlash of what can happen or maybe they do know the backlash and are afraid.

You say, why do they stay. Well that is a good question and I will answer it here as much as I can. I think they stay because many have a free account and they don't want to loose the chance to cash in on that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Others paid their 30.00 for the year and do not want to loose it. You say oh 30 dollars isn't that much but if you are below poverty level and trying for a better life you learn to shut up and keep to yourself and hope someone will notice your work or you and make your life better. Others, well others just don't give a shit period. They are just voyeurs that like to see someone tortured and abused. They are kind of like sadomasochist that love to see death and destruction.

Also I see people occasionally try to bring happiness into the forums or speak up for those abused yet they suffer the same fates as the abused in one way or another. They are reprimanded or banned from that forum or from the site itself. That is the cruelest punishment to see yourself being being bashed by a bunch of unbearable egotistical bores and not be able to defend yourself. Why is it permitted. I don't know why don't you ask Mr Sean or Lady Abbie Shores Or even JC or maybe even Frank Carnella or I don't know.

I suppose the whole thing is done under the pose of progress and building a big big big corporation and making lots and lots of money. It kind of reminds me of that clown that built Facebook. I remember a tape I heard him say when he first started Facebook, his exact remarks were" I can't believe these assholes are giving me their personal information" It just made me sick and I still to this day can't stomach the bastard no matter if he was to give away all his billions and feed the poor and etc etc etc.. there is no excuse for that kind of attitude.. also just like the idiot that built Microsoft and apple...all humanist giving their excess billions away for tax shelter.

Well that raps up the first chapter of my observations and my rants and raves and whatever you want to call it. I know that there are many hackers that are members of Fine Art America and even the owner himself is a hacker one of the best. He installs browser beacons on unsuspecting members computers ,tracking software and also does remote screen shots of people that sign on with vpn's . I know this to be true as I worked in computers for a long time and know all the signs and when the firewall tells you what is going on with port scanners and you see the bells and whistles go off when online at FAA it doesn't take a genius to figure out just what is happening.

What I was getting at was there will be many people probably try to take me down and probably will but I will keep many copies of this post and keep posting it over and over more and more places under different identities until people that want to read it do. Until next time thank you and if you decide to join FAA ,remember all that was said here and take it to heart. I have no reason to lie to you and I have lived FAA for over two years and feel that is good enough time for a correct observation. Thank you and good day .

PS Yes a last word freak and to those trolls in FAA and supposed troll myself only I troll FAA and research sites, which keeps me busy enough. A word of warning BEWARE of those befriending you. They do this especially when you have been picked on in the discussion area and they try to make you think they are giving you friendship and supporting you when in fact they are only reporting back to "the group" in private to let them know your plans if you are quitting and what you are saying and also avoid certain poetry groups because these people are wolves in sheep's clothing. They praise you and laugh with you and post your work and then attack you with sarcasm and make fun of you all the while posting nasty poetry and and your personal artwork before asking if it can be used. They all think they are superior to others and that you are a fake and suggest as much and then the surmise that you are an idiot and they are superior and they are wonderful poets . Frankly I have seen better poems on bathroom walls . That is finally it for tonight and hope there will  be more tomorrow to keep posting about and reporting the Ins and Outs and Outlaws of FAA.

Yes this post was hacked as I suspected it would be by our fine friends at Fine Art America.

It will be back with more interesting facts about your quality company Fine Art America.

Its funny how people think they are all that and a bag of chips and can do what they want to and attack people via computer or personal invasion . That is ok. What can be done to one can be done to many and companies too. It is funny how that all works out. Let the games begin! Xue